Am I a grownup?

[letterblade]

So shadesong linked to an article on polyamory, the general gist of which is Only Date Grownups.

And because I'm occasionally taken by the questionable urge to measure myself up to bullet-pointed lists provided by random strangers on the internet (who isn't?), I ran down the list.



According to this article, a grownup...

1. Owns their own shit.

I'm working on this one. I try to. And I'm certainly better than I used to be. Just yesterday, I was having a long conversation with slipjig about Dreaded Exes, and I was describing some of the situations with Cyn. And I was like, yeah, neither of us could hold down a job worth a damn, neither of us cleaned, neither of us could pay bills on time, we were both having living FAIL. And then I said that I'd gotten better since, and realized at about the time that I said it that I have. I'm certainly not perfect (as anyone who knows me well can attest), but I am more capable and willing about those basic living things than I used to be.

And I admitted that I'd had Living FAIL to a Real Grownup, like older than me and has had kids and everything. (And who knows my housemate and who could tell her that I was a total useless human being who forgot to pay bills on time and then I'd be kicked out and living on the street and die in a gutter and, okay yeah, maybe I do have some anxiety or paranoia streaks because that? Is the sort of thing I consider all the time.) That was a little alarming to do. But I owned that shit pretty well.

That was the thing that came to mind when I saw #1 up there, because it was recent and all. When it comes to shit that's directly relevant in relationships, I think I own it a little better? Hard to tell, especially given how socially avoidant I've been recently. (There: there is some shit to own that I really don't want to deal with.) Anywho.

2. Tells the truth.

Okay, I think I can solidly check that one. I don't lie maliciously, and do my best to avoid excuse-making or "I'm fine rly" white lies.

Now if you expand this to "the whole truth"...yeah, socially avoidant and hiding stuff because then people will hate me and I'll die in a gutter. LJ is a fabulous venue for saying things I don't want to say. Like all this. Whee.

3. Knows how to set appropriate boundaries.

Looking back at my previous Dreaded Ex relationships, well fuck me, I didn't. But I think several years of relationship hell have started to teach me that stuff. Though I have been fortunate as hell that my current relationship is with somebody who has a personality and relationship style sufficiently compatible with my current boundaries (which basically boil down to "romantic love is hell, stay away from it or I'll be under that nice rock over there") that I can just let our natures take their course. Which is awesome.

So: getting better at this one. And I just had to edit that sentence about three times, to do things like take the question mark off the end, because I can never admit that I'm doing something well or right because that might be boasting or over-estimating myself, and that would be just wrong. This is why I do hardcore introspection so rarely these days, because at every turn I find something else that annoys me. Yes, annoyance is the accurate description of my reaction to that. Also, I keep typing "introspection" as "instrospection" these days. Yay?

4. Knows that ultimately they are responsible for getting their needs met.

Okay, all my self-deprecating tendencies aside, yes, I know this. Previous relationships have sledgehammered this into me. Now I am not always good at meeting my own needs. See: Living FAIL and other such things. But I certainly never expect anyone else to help me with meeting my needs. (In fact, my general response to people helping me is to look frightened and hide behind something. Which is not a particularly grown-up response. Oh well, go me.)

5. Knows how to ask for what they want.

Okay, this is the one that I FAIL at. Fail hardcore forever. Because if I ask for something, anything, ever, I am being needy and whiny and selfish and nobody wants to spend their time helping me I should be able to take care of myself and nobody wants to be friends or lovers with somebody who asks them to do stuff for them and my sexuality is perverted and nobody should have to deal with it so stop asking or even implying that it exists and I'm a failure at being an adult I'm a failure at being a human being and all I want is pipe dreams anyway and I'll never be able to pay them back or thank them properly so then they'll hate me and every time I maybe start thinking that somebody might be able to give me something I want they dump me on my ass and never talk to me again and why would I have emotional needs to begin with that's completely pointless stop feeling sorry for yourself keep going on like this for about five paragraphs solid.

So now you know why I answered like that to #4.

5.1 Knows the difference between a request and a demand.

So this is a two-sided answer. When it comes to me making the above, yes, I absolutely know the difference, because one of them I rarely do and one of them I never do. Well, except maybe for "ohgodyou'resteppingonmyfootgerroff!" The difference is very clear to me. Neuroses have their uses. :P

When it comes to other people...? I read everything as a demand, unless it's somebody I really really know and trust, somebody who I trust enough to believe that they don't want to control me all the time. Starting to get the idea that I spent a lot of time close to very controlling people, both relationships and family (hi, mum! well, only figuratively, as she will never ever read this journal)...? Yeah, that.

6. Knows that the world does not revolve around them, so is not quick to take everything personally.

This is both a very yes and a very no.

Very yes: I always, both consciously and subconsciously, do my best to understand other people's motives and see things from their point of view.

Very no: I will take anything possible as a sign of my own failure as a human being.

Do I think I'm being deliberately hurt? No. Do I often get hurt? Yes.

So that's that with the list.

I am more of a grownup than I used to be. Maybe I'll actually be a grownup in a decade or so. Or maybe I'll just keep hiding from my neuroses forever and never fill out the last few items on that list. One of those is easier. And cheaper, because it doesn't require paying for a therapist.

Yeah, I need a therapist.

Comments

[paper-crystals.livejournal.com]

You have gotten much, MUCH better. Also, I think I need to re-post this to my own journal with my answers.

[heavenscalyx.livejournal.com]

I will note, from my own experience, that BillFail is something that happens when you don't have *quite* enough money to pay them all at the times the payments are being demanded, and for sheer survival, one starts playing mental games with how long one can go without paying, which ones can go without being paid, just in case there's an immediate disaster. And when it goes on for a while? The whole idea of paying a bill on time can turn into a reason for complete blinding panic.

It was incredibly liberating for me to be able to turn all the bill paying over to akycha. Kept me from bursting into tears every month, or having arguments with her over the fact that I kept putting off payment, that sort of thing. (I note that I'm very lucky to have this option, and my point was that it's a long row to hoe to get over it, and I have not yet.)

Maybe I'll actually be a grownup in a decade or so.

That's what I keep thinking about myself... surely I'll be a grownup sometime in my 50s? 60s? 70s?

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting, as an evaluation. I should run myself through the questions.

I think you have a lot of emotional honesty with yourself (and, y'know, the people reading this.) Considering that's something I struggle with, I really admire that.

Being in a compatible relationship really helps. Both of us have had exes that've set us in some deeply unfortunate patterns, and the very fact that those patterns can be broken means a lot.

[slipjig.livejournal.com]

First of all, I'm deathly amused that you've referred to me as a "Real Grownup." (She don't know me too good, do she?)

Secondly, you know full well that I wouldn't do that. I was the one who put you two on the phone together, which I wouldn't done if I thought either of you was at all a flake risk.

Thirdly? You ARE a grownup. Truly. I mean that. (But not in any of the stupid boring ways. *smile*)

[nevacaruso.livejournal.com]

I really admire your candor and self-knowledge in this post (with regards to both your progress and your possible lack thereof.) I agree with others that you've definitely gotten better, and I think that a huge part of maturing and growing up involves looking back on behaviors - your own and other people's - that you tolerated in the past, and realizing that they don't work anymore. Recognizing that there is a difference? Always signifies some sort of forward movement, no matter how small.

Also. I don't think that a person is necessarily disqualified from adulthood if she is not perfect at all of the behaviors on the list all the time, though a tendency to practice them more often and more gracefully than not is certainly commendable.

[bleemoo.livejournal.com]

*hug*

[darkoni]

This was really interesting to read. I think most people have different views of how grown up they are, and in different ways.

Now, I don't know you that well, but my personal view is that I don't think you give yourself enough credit. But it also seems like you already recognize that in some ways.

I think if you ever decide you are fully grown up, that's when you stop growing as a person. There's always more room to grow. I've been around longer than you and I still have places to grow. For me, it's the whole dating thing. I'm not much good at it and I don't get much practice at it, so it's not an area I seem to grow much in. Maybe that will change someday, but I don't know.

Regardless, I thought your post was insightful and I learned some interesting things about you. That is a good thing. :)

[natbudin.livejournal.com]

Word. And I also agree with the people posting here that you've gotten a lot better.

As a side note, it seems to me that while the intent of this advice is about picking people to date, a lot of the stuff could apply equally well to picking collaborators, business partners, etc.